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Synching Video Clips with Image Objects & Animations

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I'm having a problem controlling the start of a video clip inserted in the Objects & Animation window.

I would like the video clip to start when the opacity of a superimposed object goes to zero. However, it seems to start playing at the beginning of the timeline, regardless of where I place it on that timeline. Am I missing something, or is this a feature, Igor, that you might consider adding in a future version of PTE?

I can probably accomplish something similar if I make multiple copies of the same slide, spread them out on the main project timeline, and superimpose the video clip on the slide that starts where I want the video to start playing. It would be so much easier, however, to be able to place the video clip somewhere on the Obj & Anim timeline and have it start playing at that point. I really want to sync it with a particular animation, not a specific slide.

Ken, I used the word "video" seven times, but this note doesn't belong under "Video". :)

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Hi Al,

Click on the video in the Objects List then go to the "Properties" tab. In the "offset" place the length of time you want before the video clip begins.

Contrary to normal intuitive thought, the "Start Time" indicates how far into the video run time you want it to begin while the "Offset" is how far from the beginning of the slide time you want the video to start.

If you don't want the video to show a "black rectangle" while waiting for the offset time, use the opacity and keframes to make it invisible until the offset time. Use one keyframe with zero opacity followed by a second with zero opacity until just before you want it to appear - then one with 100% opacity at the offset time.

Best regards,

Lin

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Hi Al,

Click on the video in the Objects List then go to the "Properties" tab. In the "offset" place the length of time you want before the video clip begins.

Contrary to normal intuitive thought, the "Start Time" indicates how far into the video run time you want it to begin while the "Offset" is how far from the beginning of the slide time you want the video to start.

.................

Best regards,

Lin

Thanks, Lin - I figured there must be a way. I wouldn't have found that input box in a month of sundays!

However, in my example, for a clip of approx 5 seconds, when I set the start time to 0, the duration to 2 sec., and the offset to 30 sec., the video starts at 35 sec, and ends at 37 sec. Go figure! :)

Igor, would it be possible, without a lot of redesign effort, to make things a little more intuitive by having the program automatically calculate the start time to be equal to the point at which the icon is placed on the animation timeline, and then allow the clip to continue for a prespecified "duration" time? I can't imagine any need to be able to place the video clip on the animation timeline at a time different from the start of playback. This way, it would be simple to control the video start time by simply sliding it's icon over the animation timeline.

Please correct me if I'm way off-base here, or if there is some reason why this wouldn't work.

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Hi Al,

The "Duration" is how long you want the video to run. If you set the offset to 30 seconds this tells the video to wait 30 seconds after the beginning of the slideshow to begin, then with the duration of 2 seconds it "should" begin to play at 30 seconds and play for 2 seconds. Of course this could also depend on the "load time" of the individual video. Unlike a single slide, video has some buffering so timing of start is not always instantaneous depending on individual video type, size and hardware being used to play it..

I would have to look at your PTE file, but I'll bet we can make it work perfectly.

Best regards,

Lin

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Lin,

I understand the "duration" parameter, and it works as it should.

However, the offset seems to be different from what you described - I'll have to go back and run a few more examples to try to figure out what is going on.

I still don't see why the video can't be made to start where one positions the "key" icon. That would make things so much simpler. Could it have something to do with loading the video into RAM before actually calling for it to run? Igor, any explanation?

This reminds me of the earkt days of PTE when we struggled so hard to perfect music synchronization, and be able to set up parameters by dragging bars, etc., on the timeline :) .

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Hi Al,

It's cool to see one of the original members on the forum.

The start of video at keyframe 1 has been suggested (along with audio) in the past. Like many things in PTE, once you get used to how it works you can do almost everything you want.

Tom

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Hi Al,

It works correctly for me - it could have something to do with your individual project or something with your video. It's difficult to say exactly but the offset has been used successfully in hundreds of video implementations and works as explained, so I suspect there may be some parameters specific to your show which are causing issues. You might try a different video clip and see if you experience the same issue with it.

If you want to email me a link to your PTE file I'll be glad to check it out and see if I can help set it up like you are trying to do.

Best regards,

Lin

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Thanks, Tom and Lin!

This is what happens when one comes late to the party! :)

I understand now how it works, and it is quite clever. However, I still would prefer a less-analytical method of setting the "offset". There's really no other need to calculate it's value as one is really only interested in how it syncs with whatever else is going on in the animation.

I still think being able to set the offset value by sliding a key icon back and forth and watching what happens in the Obj & Anim window would be preferable to first determining its numerical value and then setting this value manually into "Properties". It would be more intuitive and easier to visualize. However, maybe this will come eventually as Igor improves the GUI nature of the interface. (just like he did for music synching). But I can work with this the way it is, now that I understand it. :) Thanks again for your patience, and help!

By the way, what sparked my interest in this was a YouTube AV called "Jazz" created with PTE by a J. C. Pizolatto in France. I don't know if he's a Forum member, but this AV is amazing!

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Al,

There's another aspect of PTE that comes into play when using video clips and that you need to understand: the impact of "Keep Full Slide Duration" (that little tick box tucked away in the bottom right-hand corner of the main PTE window). The best way to investigate and understand this is to create a short test sequence of three slides, each containing just the one video clip. Set them to use the fade transition and set three different transition times (say, 2s, 3s and 4s). Build this sequence with the box unticked and watch the Preview. Then build the same sequence again, from square one, but with the box ticked. Again, watch the Preview. Study the way in which the slide durations and transition times are being shown - and what the effect of the two different options (tick/untick) is.

Be very aware: this feature (often referred to in other topics as KFSD) is actually a "system preference" and NOT a project option. Whatever setting that box had when you close down PTE will be used when you start PTE next time, even if you start PTE by double-clicking a project file that you built with the opposite setting of KFSD.

regards,

Peter

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IMHO, Landscape type video clips lend themselves to the "KFSD TICKED" approach.

Documentary type Video Clips, perhaps, lend themselves to the "KFSD UNTICKED" approach.

What has to be avoided at all costs (IMHO) is a "frozen" first or last frame of a video being on screen whilst another still image or Video Clip is faded in. There will be exceptions to this when it is deliberately used as a tool to illustrate a point.

As always IMHO - other opinions are available.

DG

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Thanks for the heads-up. As I understand the problem, it occurs only when moving slides around in the presentation. In my example, KFSD unchecked gave the preferred result after switching two slides.. Any option which results in a change to the total duration of an AV is not acceptable to me, and this is what happens when I check "KFSD" in my example.

.

"KFSD" only makes sense if there is a solid definition of "slide duration". It appears that some users consider it to mean the time from the start of an incoming transition to the end of the transition into the following slide.

Back in the old days, the common definition was "the time from the start of one transition to the start of the next." To me this makes the most sense because at the start of the "outgoing" transition one is really saying "I've had enough of this slide, so let's get on with the next one". The fade-out transition then is really not part of the duration of that slide, although technically, remnants from that slide are still partially on the screen. At the start of a transition, one is full of anticipation for what is coming next, and really not interested any more in the slide currently fading out.

I, personally, do not see any need in my own presentations to check the KFSD box, even if I were rearranging slides. I am willing to go back and tweak duration and/or transition times if rearranging slides upsets the aesthetic flow within the presentation. For my needs, it is important to keep the start of a slide's transition (or that of it's replacement) at exactly the same place in time when rearranging slides as otherwise all the synchronization to the music would have to be redone.

Possibly because of my background, the total slide "duration times" (plus the time of the last transition in the AV before final cut-off) should equal the total time of the show. If we count the overlaps twice, this will not be the case. One could solve the matter by prorating the total dissolve times according to the intensity of the incoming and outgoing slides on the screen at any given time, but this would get to be a tad ridiculous, as one would have to call on a mathematician to apply principles of elementary calculus to the problem in the case of non-linear transitions. So for my purposes, slide duration will always mean the time from the start of a transition to the start of the next.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me about the possible implications this interpretation might have, specifically to the application of video objects.

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Al,

With KFSD checked, the video duration extends from the start of the incoming transition to the end of the outgoing transition automatically - so the motion never stops, not even during the transition into the next image. With KFSD unchecked, you, the user, if you do not want the video to pause on its last frame, must either calculate the durations to ensure that the video extends as above or use an unnecessarily long video that will safely extend beyond the end of the outgoing transition.

This discussion is about video as "main image". Video as a "picture in picture" object is controlled via keyframes just like any other object.

regards,

Peter

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Thanks for the heads-up. As I understand the problem, it occurs only when moving slides around in the presentation.

Al, There isn't a "problem" - KFSD was introduced to cure a problem.

I am willing to go back and tweak duration and/or transition times if rearranging slides upsets the aesthetic flow within the presentation.

You might find, with video, that you are tweaking to three decimal places.

For my needs, it is important to keep the start of a slide's transition (or that of it's replacement) at exactly the same place in time when rearranging slides as otherwise all the synchronization to the music would have to be redone.

It has been suggested that a new approach is needed when video clips are used - Visual first - Music second. Synchronization to music with video?

Possibly because of my background, the total slide "duration times" (plus the time of the last transition in the AV before final cut-off) should equal the total time of the show. If we count the overlaps twice, this will not be the case. One could solve the matter by prorating the total dissolve times according to the intensity of the incoming and outgoing slides on the screen at any given time, but this would get to be a tad ridiculous, as one would have to call on a mathematician to apply principles of elementary calculus to the problem in the case of non-linear transitions. So for my purposes, slide duration will always mean the time from the start of a transition to the start of the next.

In a nutshell, KFSD is basically for use with multiple Video Clips back to back. Mixing Video Clips with stills - Video - still - video - still (perhaps) requires the "old fashioned" approach.

DG

IMHO as always - other opinions are available.

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Al,

With KFSD checked, the video duration extends from the start of the incoming transition to the end of the outgoing transition automatically - so the motion never stops, not even during the transition into the next image. With KFSD unchecked, you, the user, if you do not want the video to pause on its last frame, must either calculate the durations to ensure that the video extends as above or use an unnecessarily long video that will safely extend beyond the end of the outgoing transition.

Thanks, Peter - I'm starting to get the hang of it.

However, in my tests, using only 3 images, with KFSD checked, rearranging the 3 images inadvertently added 2 seconds to the total length of my test show, which, since I was using a single common sound track, meant that the sound cut out 2 seconds before where I wanted it to. In a larger show, one should be aware that rearranging a lot of slides in the show could add a significant amount of time to the total length. This time does not correct itself if the slides are put back in their original order, either!

This discussion is about video as "main image". ......

I suspect most of my work will be with video as an object, as I still can't quite get my mind around PTE as a video producer, any more than I would consider using it as a video or image editor. However, it's nice to have the option of using video clips along with stills. I can probably live with some of the idiosyncrasies. I'm still a newbie at this video stuff, and I see I have a lot to learn. :)

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IN CASE SOME OF THE NEWBIES ON THE FORUM dont take the Big Al serious

Ken, being a "newbie" at this video stuff, I don't even take myself seriously! :P

Please don't dare ask me to update "Adjustor" for video situations! :rolleyes:

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DaveG wrote:

"You might find, with video, that you are tweaking to three decimal places."

Yes, I'm starting to see some of the complexities. Especially when multiple sound sources are involved and need to be controlled.

"It has been suggested that a new approach is needed when video clips are used - Visual first - Music second. Synchronization to music with video?"

Perhaps, although from what I've seen so far, PTE handles the mixing of stills and video quite well.

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