Zoom H4n Advice needed

[harbrimar]

While I have a reasonable understanding of photography I have to say that matters relating to sound and recording it is a totally new area for me. Most of what I have achieved so far in this area is by trial and error - lots of trials and even more errors! I now have a Zoom H4n and have used the internal mics to record voice overs but I do not think I am getting the best quality. There is some hiss in the background and I am sure the voice quality could be improved. I have done some research on the internet and it has been suggested that an external mic is better for voice overs and the internal mics are better for recording sound clips etc. I know that I can improve on the place where I do my recording i.e. where there are more curtains and carpets etc. Perhaps a pop filter too. I do not want to spend too much in buying more sound equipment but my budget would extend to a Shure SM58 mic if that would improve the voice recording which some people seem to think it will (or perhaps a cheaper alternative if there is one). Ideally I would just like to use the Zoom H4n without external mics and any advice as to placement and settings would be most appreciated.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

For internal voice overs by myself I use a Logitech mike/earphone headset, it cost around £25. I also have an Olympus LS10 recorder for outside recording. I used to use it for internal recording but the Logitech is so good I use that. Take a look here

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?/topic/17519-sound-recording/#entry116397

Yachtsman1.

[PGA]

Hi Harbrimar,

I have the predecessor to the H4n (the H4) and find it works admirably for all recording work. You asked about placement. Imagine that you are standing, looking at a large clock face (perhaps 18 inches in diameter) immediately in front of you, and 12 inches away from your nose. Set the Zoom up so that its microphones are at 10 o'clock or 2 o'clock on that clock face, and so that its long axis is pointing directly towards your mouth. Now, whilst facing directly towards the centre of the clock face, deliver your voice-over. You are trying to achieve "talking past the micropohone", rather than talking into the microphone.

I do not know what settings the H4n allows. I always have my H4 set to record 44.1KHz WAV files. I have been into the menu system and have activated Auto Gain. The only external control I use is the 3-position "MIC GAIN" switch. I set this to MEDIUM to record voice-overs, HIGH to record bird-song and location ambience, and LOW to record our local brass band at an indoor venue.

The quality of the design and features of the H4n mean that it should be capable of delivering everything you want it to.

Are you recording in the H4n or simply using it as an audio interface into your computer and recording in the computer?

Assuming you are recording in the H4n, how do you get the recordings from the H4n to your computer?

On what equipment do you listen to the recordings during playback on your computer?

regards,

Peter

[harbrimar]

Hi Yachtsman1

Sorry but I am a little confused, are you using the Logitech headset connected directly to your computer for recording voice over and just using your Olympus LS10 for outside recording e.g. birds etc.? If this is the case I would have a problem as my computer has a fan running and the hard drive clicks and clunks from time to time which would be presumably be picked up by the mics?. I do not have a lap top so I would have to do the voice over from the room where I have my computer.

Hi Peter

I am recording into the H4n and then transferring the files via SD card into Audacity on my computer. I have set the H4n to record at 44.1khz/16 WAV but I have options to go to 44.1/24, 48/16, 48/24, 96/16 & 96/24. Not tried recording at the higher settings but presumably the file size would be huge? There is a setting for ‘Record level’ which allows you to set ‘Mic Level’ which I have generally set around 80. The ‘Input ‘options I have are ‘Lo Cut’ which defaults to Mic Off and Input Off. If I press to change the settings I am presented with lots of frequency settings and as I do not understand what they do I have left the setting on the defaults (Off). There is a ‘Comp/Limit’ setting for ‘Mic’ & ‘Input’ which defaults to off. You can set ‘Comp’ to General, Vocal or Drum and ‘Limit’ to General, Concert or Studio. Again, I have left this setting off. There is also a function to set Record level to Auto. There does not appear to be a ‘Mic gain’ setting.

In so far as your ‘clock’ is concerned, forgive me for being a bit dense but using the LCD screen as an orientation point, does it face me with the mic’s facing out towards 10 or 2, or mic’s facing out towards 10 or 2 with LCD now facing up (or down) or are the mic’s are actually facing towards me i.e. the top of the device is closer to me and the bottom further away so that the H4n is at 90 degrees from the clock face. Thank you for your patience!

Thank you both for responding

Regards

Brian

[PGA]

Hi Brian,

The attached image shows the kind of thing I was trying to describe for the set up. As for the settings on the H4n, if you are using Audacity to post-process the recordings, I would leave all the values on the H4n at factory defaults. I would, however, suggest you run some tests with the different settings for the Record Level. Make copious notes of which recording had what settings applied.

regards,

Peter

P.S. I'm sending you a Personal Message (PM) as well.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Yachtsman1

Sorry but I am a little confused, are you using the Logitech headset connected directly to your computer for recording voice over and just using your Olympus LS10 for outside recording e.g. birds etc.? If this is the case I would have a problem as my computer has a fan running and the hard drive clicks and clunks from time to time which would be presumably be picked up by the mics?. I do not have a lap top so I would have to do the voice over from the room where I have my computer.

Hi Brian

Yes I record directly into my PC which is a couple of feet away from my mouth. The technology of the Logitech cuts out most of the ambient sound from the PC as the mouthpiece is only an inch away from my mouth. It is a USB connection which eliminates noise generated from your PC sound card & jack connections, any spurious noise I use Audacity's noise removal function. I either record direct into Audacity, or Camtasia if I am doing a demo screen capture style show. If you click the Youtube link below my signature you will find a number of my shows with voice overs, try a couple & see what you think, don't be put off by the price although it's cheap, it's really good.

Yachtsman1

[morturn]

Brian, decent sound recording is a whole new world where you will find a mind boggling amount of information out there in books, videos and people trying to flog you expensive microphones. I think Peter has covered this quite well.

I use a Zoom H4n, they are a very versatile field recorder and should give you excellent sound quality. A basic principal is, an external mic is better and also get your mic as close to the subject as possible, this will eliminate a great deal of back ground noise.

I use a RØDE VideoMic which are about half the price of the Shure SM58, which is more of an on stage performers mic. Use the rest of your money to buy some headphones, so you can listen in on what you are recording.

I would also suggest that you plug some headphone into your Zoom H4n, set it to record, and go for a walk round with it. Its quite surprising what a mic will pick up, as opposed to what our ears filter out.

Don't forget to record 10 to 20 seconds of silence, so you can remove and background noise post process. However I would go for a clean recording if possible.

[harbrimar]

Hi Peter

Thank you so much for your advice which I am putting into practice. I've just noticed that I totally overlooked your post with the photo when I replied to your personal email, my apologies and it certainly makes things a lot clearer.

Hi Yachtsman1

I did manage to borrow a pair of Logitech phones with mic but despite moving away from my computer I was still able to haer some clicks and fan noise in the background. I will endeavor to try and get the best out of my Zoom. Thank you for your input.

Hi Morturn

Thank you for your advice about using the H4n and I now realise that I was probably too far away from the mic's. In so far as the Rode Video mic is concerned, are you recording directly into your camera (as it appears to be a mic designed to be mounted on a camera) or do you plug it into the H4n? I have also purchased a pair of headphones but have not had the chance to try them out yet

Regards to you all

Brian

[morturn]

Brain

Mount the mic on a stand or a spare tripod, and get this a close to your subject as possible. I plug the mic into the zoom H4n, there are plenty of mic extension cables around, I like the Fisual S-Flex as they tend not to tangle up, and are a good build and sound quality.

If you make films, as I do, you can record with the on-board camera mic at the same to, to help synchronise in post processing. If you want to go one step further, get a splitter, and plug the mic into the Zoom and the camera.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Peter

Hi Yachtsman1

I did manage to borrow a pair of Logitech phones with mic but despite moving away from my computer I was still able to haer some clicks and fan noise in the background. I will endeavor to try and get the best out of my Zoom. Thank you for your input.

Brian

Hi Brian

I know my ears aren't as good as they used to be, but if you used the model of Logitech I used, either it was faulty or your PC must be pretty noisy. I've posted lots of shows on here using mine & never had any adverse comments about my VO's. Did you run your recoding through Audacity to clean it up?

I've attached a few images of how I used to set up my Olympus LS10 for outside recording. Since then I've acquired a pair of Wind Muff fur attenuators which are better than the sponge jobs in the pictures. The M5 pic my wife took in our local park where we were recording a brass band concert. With the LS10 plugged into the camera, I get a recording direct to the video sound tracks & the LS10 card. That way you can add both tracks to Audacity, chose the best bits from either then blend them together, usually though the LS10 was the far superior recording. Just one last plug for the LS10, next time you see journalists thrusting their recorders at celebrities on TV, just take a look at their recording mikes, 90% will be Olympus. LS??

Yachtsman1.

[danmassefrance]

As I have spent quite a few hours (days, I should say) a few months ago, trying to improve the quality of sound recording, I thought it might be of interest to share my conclusions :

I needed a way to record comments (at home) and occasionnally in the field. Since my shows are sometimes shown in theaters, where the audio system is generally very good, I need good quality recording.

But I did not want to spend a fortune on an equipment which I am only going to use a few times a year...

So, I made a number of tests with the equipment I could put my hands on : a H4n, a H2, and my own SONY MZ-R35 minidisc, which I have been using for several years.

The choice of the microphone is said to be very important. The problem is that there are so many models on the market that it becomes very difficult to make a choice. Also, the microphone needs to be small, as I want to carry it with me in the field, on occasions. I made tests with several microphones, and found that the small SONY ECM-MS907 gave adequate results, better than either the H2 or the H4, and better than the larger microphones I tried..

Then, there is the problem of the sound card : most computers now come with the sound card integrated to the mother board, and the quality may not be the best.

The solution I finally decided on : purchase an external USB sound card. I choosed the SoundBlaster X-Fi HD. The improvement is dramatic... For home recording, I connect my small SONY microphone directly to the external sound card, and I record directly on the computer : the fan noise is very low on recent machines, and is absolutely not audible on the recording. Of course, I try to stand as far as possible from the computer, and the SONY is directional (60°).

And for the occasional field recording, I use the SONY minidisc, and the same small SONY microphone. The only drawback with the minidisc is that I have to use the external audio input to the computer to save the soundtrack. But, as I enter the computer through the external sound card, the quality is quite good.

For my last show, "En quête du Rio Cochamo", https://vimeo.com/89424418 , I recorded my voice using the system described above.

If my experience could be of help...

[Guest Yachtsman1]

You could also plug your USB mike directly into your computer & record to Audacity, which by-passes your sound card & is editable.

Yachtsman1.

[davegee]

Dan,

My experience with the Sony MD units is that they all (?) have Optical Outputs. My MZ-R50 certainly has.

By using an Optical to USB A/D Converter you do not need an external sound card and can go straight to Audition etc without touching a Sound card.

Edirol UA-1D: http://www.roland.com/products/en/UA-1D/

You could achieve the same results with this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-UCA222-U-Control-Ultra-Low-Interface/dp/B0023BYDHK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407927028&sr=8-1&keywords=behringer+222+usb

....if you don't have an optical output on the recorder.

DG

[danmassefrance]

Of course, I don't need to use an external soundcard : I use a USB sound card because the sound is much better than the buit-in sound card...