Problem with sound level in v8.0.x

[Picsel]

Using v8.0.10

There is a strange behaviour of the sound level when there are two audio clips jointed on the same track. The sound level fades from point A to the end of the audio clip .The problem occurs when the first audio clip ends at 0.0db (as an example) and the second begins with a time point at a different level - infinity (as an example)

see attachment.

To correct this unexpected behaviour, I have to put another time point on the orange line at the end of the first audioclip.

Daniel

re edited : the sentence in red added on the 19/01/2015

[PGA]

Daniel,

Which of the two overlapped audio clips sits on top and which sits at the bottom? I suspect you can add envelop points only to the clip that sits on top. To add a point to the clip which sits at the bottom you may need to place the point away from the overlap and then drag it into position. I have not done any tests on this. I am merely theorizing!

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

The Project Options / Audio screen capture might help to simulate this problem.

It looks as though the two files are not overlapping?

In an overlap situation the overlap "should" create a Crossfade. Maybe it is so small a crossfade that it does not show in the illustration.

Only the Project Options screen grab will show this clearly.

DG

[Picsel]

Hi Peter and Dave

reading your posts this morning I understood that I missed to give an information concerning the problem by itself so I added the sentence in red in my previous post.

The sound level declines regularly from point A to the end of the audio clip. If I add a time point on the orange line, not necessarely at the end of the audio clip then the problem disappear.

Please refer to the attachment for the answer to your questions.

Daniel

[Picsel]

Following Peter and Dave suggestions, zooming on the timeline it appears that time point B is located at 2.55.751 while the junction of the two audio clips is located at the time point 2.55.754

So there are two problems

1 - time point B does not belong to the second audio clip but to the first one and should not impact the second audio clip.

In order to fix this problem it should not be possible to put, by error, a time point outside an audio clip limit.

2 - As the point B belongs to the first audio clip the orange line of the first audio clip should decline from level A to level B, in accordance with the fact that the sound is regularly declining from level A to level B but that is not the case the orange line remains at a constant level (0.0db) .

Daniel

[davegee]

Daniel,

After doing a little testing, it appears that the Automatic Crossfade does not apply if the Clips are linked to specific slides and are in a "Track for Audio Comments".

If audio clip 2 is dragged into audio clip 1 the first clip stops abruptly when clip 2 starts (in my test).

However I could not reproduce the gradual fade that you have heard.

Have you dragged the two clips apart to ensure that there is no overlap?

[Picsel]

Dave,

Had you received my last post ?

No there is no overlap between the two audio clips : see attachment.

As I said in my last post, I think that the problem happens because the time point B which should be located at the very beginning of the second audio clip (see the orange line) is in fact located 4/1000s ahead on the fisrt audio clip.

So there are two problems which might have the same cause :

1- the orange line on the first audio clip remains at a constant level (here 0.0db) while the sound level is declining regularly

2- it should not be possible to drag the point B outside the audio clip limits

Daniel

[Igor]

Daniel,

Please can you send me this project (with images and audio files)? Or create a new test project where we can observe this problem.

[davegee]

Daniel,

Try a new project and add two sound comments to two different slides in a Track for Audio Comments.

I have found it to be impossible to drag a key point from one audio file into another.

But you can overlap audio files.

DG

[Picsel]

Daniel,

Please can you send me this project (with images and audio files)? Or create a new test project where we can observe this problem.

Igor,

I sent it to you via email.

[Picsel]

I have found it to be impossible to drag a key point from one audio file into another.

But you can overlap audio files.

Dave,

I do not want to build something different otherwise it will be more difficult for Igor to point out which does not fit.

That is a fact, there is no overlap and one key point has been unfortunately dragged (4/1000s!!!) from the second audio file to the first one. Why? how? I do not know.

I worked several times on this project without having experienced this problem. As the global project is rather big around 2.4Go I made an export by creating an HD video.

In checking the HD video before its release, I was very surprised by this phenomena and came back to the PTE project looking for a solution. As I said, I solved the problem easily by putting another keypoint on the 0.0db orange line level before the end of the audio clip.

Daniel

[Igor]

Daniel,

Thanks for the sample project!

I think that we reproduced this problem. It may happen with any audio clip (sound comment or not).

This problem happens when an audio clip contains keypoints of the envelope which are located outside of customized duration. In this case sound is smoothly fading at the end.

Normally this problem doesn't occur, because there is no sense to add keypoints of sound volume outside customized audio duration.

You can fix this problem for your particular project.

However we'll try to fix this problem in the next update(s).

Thanks!

[davegee]

How do you add Keypoints outside of the Customized Duration?

Were the Keypoints added and then the Duration altered?

I have found it impossible to drag a keypoint beyond the limits of the Start Time and the End of Duration Time.

DG

[Igor]

How do you add Keypoints outside of the Customized Duration?

Were the Keypoints added and then the Duration altered?

<...>

Yes. We add keypoints and then adjust duration.

[davegee]

Thanks Igor.

DG

[Igor]

Daniel,

We fixed this problem.

It's a significant change in the code of PicturesToExe and we would prefer to use this fix only in future version 9.0. Because it better to check it during long beta-testing.

[Picsel]

Igor,

Ok I understand your point.

Now that is no longer a problem for me as I know it, but I would just suggest to add a comment inside the v8 user guide in order to inform other PTE users.

I agree with you, there is no sense to add keypoints outside the slide duration, but it is quite common to adjust slides duration after in order to fine tune them with the music.

In fact I cannot explain when and how the keypoint has been translated of 4/1000s ahead in my project, that remains a mystery for me. As I replied to Dave I worked several times on this project without having noticed this problem. Checking the created HD video before the projection in our slideshow festival I was very surprised to hear the sound fading abnormaly between the two sequences. For people who know the problem, it is very easy to overcome it by adding another keypoint at the end of the audio clip.

Daniel

[davegee]

Thanks for the suggestion Daniel.

Something like this?:

"Please note that if an Audio Clip having Key Points at the extremes (beginning or end) is customized by having its Duration altered (Start Time and/or Duration) either in the Project Options/Audio Tab or by dragging in the Timeline, it is possible that these Key Points will no longer be seen but will still be active. This might result in an unexpected effect. The Fade In and Fade Out Brackets in the Timeline are not affected in the same way."

DG

P.S. Here

[Igor]

Dave,

Yes, that's fine.

Daniel,

Of course, this problem will be solved completely in v9.0

[Picsel]

Thanks Igor and Dave.

Dave,

I would just add some more words to your sentence for a better understanding (please correct my english if it is bad) , something like that :

"Please note that if an Audio Clip having Key Points at the extremes (beginning or end) is customized by having its Duration altered (Start Time and/or Duration) either in the Project Options/Audio Tab or by dragging in the Timeline, it is possible that these Key Points will no longer be seen (hidden by the previous or the following audio clip on the same track) but will still be active. This might result in an unexpected sound level effect. The Fade In and Fade Out Brackets in the Timeline are not affected in the same way."

and for the picture :

[davegee]

Hi Daniel,

On your first suggestion, the hidden KeyPoints are hidden even if there is no following audio clip so I think that putting that in might cause greater confusion/misunderstanding.

My illustrations to show this are based on "stand-alone" audio clips and don't require following clips to produce the "problem". The problem can be caused either by customizing the clip in Project Options/Audio or by dragging in the Timeline

Until Igor provides a permanent "fix" I would recommend using the "Fade In" and "Fade Out" Brackets in the Timeline rather than use Fade In/Out Keypoints which could cause this problem later on.

I will add the "sound effect" phrase.

http://docs.picturestoexe.com/en/main-window/the_timeline

DG

[Picsel]

My illustrations to show this are based on "stand-alone" audio clips and don't require following clips to produce the "problem". The problem can be caused either by customizing the clip in Project Options/Audio or by dragging in the Timeline

DG

Hi Dave,

In my point of view, without adding some more information I fear that your comment will not be understood at all by any PTE user.

Your illustration is quite obvious and if it was a real case I am sure that the PTE user will correct it by himself.

See the figure in attachment which illustrates a real case, you will notice there is no information which can reveal the problem and justify the unexpected sound effect.

The problem happens because the audio files are jointed on the same track and linked to the slides. If you customize the first slide duration, then the keypoints may be hidden.

best regards

Daniel